for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.
but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?
new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.
Faulty premise in your OP question. The Watchtower is a satanic cess-pool of lies that robs people of the destiny that was bought for them on the cross.
The biblical promise of Justification has been denied to it's members at least since 1938:
"the other sheep are... not... even justified" Watchtower 1938 p. 104-105
the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.
even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.
yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.
Does that mean they believe there are two groups of believers, one that rules with Christ as kings and priests in heaven, and the other that lives as subjects of the kingdom in paradise on earth? Because that’s what I’m talking about.
@SBF
Yes, but theologians wouldn't put it like that. The apostles and the early Christian leaders all taught a literal 1000 yr. Kingdom Reign on earth populated by the survivors of the GT in the flesh, who still retain their sin nature, but will have extended life-spans like in the days of Noah.
This was one of the primary reasons I stopped viewing the WT as unique. A lady pointed this out to me in field service, that hundreds of millions of non-WT afiliated Christians believe same a JW's.... they just don't believe that the change has taken place yet, while the WT claims the change took place in 1914.
The problem you are having is that you are thinking in terms of destination (heaven vs. earth) to try and make sense of scriptures. That is a Watchtower trick. The proper way to view the differences is through the passage of time. By viewing scriptures on the proper time-line, they all work togher perfectly.
What the Watchtower did was use time distortion to create a whole new heretical religion by highlighting scriptures (ad infinitum) that referred to believers in the final part of the GT & the Millennial Reign. They did this while convincing gullible uneducated members that the Church Age had ended in 1914.
Now, just getting end times stuff wrong won't damn a person. But, what WT did was then use their phony (invisible) 2nd Coming as an excuse to reject the New Covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" described in Mt. 26: 27-28 ; and that will damn a person because there is simply no such thing as a Christian outside of the NC. The contractural blood-covering is what makes a person a Christian.
Remember: the New Covenant is "for the forgiveness of sins", not only ruling positions in heaven. By highlighting destination over time-passage (dispensation), the Watchtower created the illusion of a two group salvation. In reality, man has always been saved by grace through faith regardless of the dispensation of time they lived in. So, because of this - there is really only one group of people who get saved, not two, 4 or 7. That one group is simply people who believe God. How God relates to man changed through the dispensations; some of the plans for believers in various dispensations have been adjusted - but how we get saved has been the same since the Fall.
the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.
even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.
yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.
This is really NOT really news. Two-thirds of Evangelicals are Millinial, as opposed to Amillinial. Amillinialism started with Augistine in the early 400's.
The early church leaders trained by the apostles were all Millinial. For those of you that don't know: Millinial means you believe in an literal earthy 1000 yr. reign of Christ.
Amillinial means you think this age or time period is symbolic. This is the view of the RCC and several other big name demoninational churches.
say it ain’t so!
.
in one sense it’s a no brainer because the figures just don’t add up any more.. in another (negative) sense it’s a no brainer because it’s been fundamental to jws since year dot and might undermine the whole thing?
With 25K members partaking and counting, I wouldn't bet against it.
i found out recently that michelangelo's painting of adam on the sistine chapel depicts him without a belly button.
i had never noticed this before and it makes sense that neither adam nor eve would have belly buttons, not having been born in the usual way.
then i realized all the first animals were created rather than born, according to the religious views of the origin of life.
@Jeffro
chemical reactions in biological systems happen every second of every day without any need of magical sky friends.
So you change your point on functionality which you can't possibly logically defend to self-replication, which you imagine that you can. Yet, to self-replicate, you need all the functionality that you just dismissed with the wave of your hand!
Very illogical.
i found out recently that michelangelo's painting of adam on the sistine chapel depicts him without a belly button.
i had never noticed this before and it makes sense that neither adam nor eve would have belly buttons, not having been born in the usual way.
then i realized all the first animals were created rather than born, according to the religious views of the origin of life.
@Jeffro,
these chemical reactions in biological systems happen every second of every day without any need of magical sky friends.
How is your statement different than saying a Boeing 747 in the sky functions just fine without any engineers on board?
What came first, the engineeers or the 747 ?
it remains a tedious argument from ignorance at its core.
i found out recently that michelangelo's painting of adam on the sistine chapel depicts him without a belly button.
i had never noticed this before and it makes sense that neither adam nor eve would have belly buttons, not having been born in the usual way.
then i realized all the first animals were created rather than born, according to the religious views of the origin of life.
The ultimate Chicken and Egg Scenario is the replicating cell. The hundreds of processes like countless chemical reactions, information storage & replication, food and waste processes etc. has been likened to be of similar complexity to a modern city. All of these thousands of parts and functions as well as the information instructions must be present at the same time in order for the cell to function and reproduce.
The non-Christian physicist Paul Davies points out:
“We now know that the secret of life lies not with the chemical ingredients as such, but with the logical structure and organisational arrangement of the molecules…. Like a supercomputer, life is an information processing system…. It is the software of the living cell that is the real mystery, not the hardware.”
sea breeze: @nicolau,i stated my case rather succiently, which you failed to address.
if you have a better solution to the problem of evil than what jesus offers, then why don't you present that in a new topic?.
pathetic diversion.
@ Nicolau
On page 2, I asked you to come up with a better solution to the problem of evil than what Jesus offers.
Since you didn't present ANY proposal whatsoever addressing the problem of evil, are we to assume that you don't have any ideas on the topic at all? Why even start a thread if you can't test your ideas? What are you scared of? Just lay out a brief description of what you think is a better solution to the problem of evil than what Jesus offers. Let's take a look at it.
I know atheists care about the problem of evil just like everyoine else does. Do YOU have a solution better than what Jesus offers? If not, why be so critical of Christians who trust Jesus' ideas?
In the absence of ideas on the problem of evil, atheists like yourself seem to exists for the sole purpose of pouncing on Christian's faith. Of course, you could change that if you actually have some positive ideas on the topic.
my family had several elders, ministerial servants, auxillary pioneers etc, so it certainly wasn't one of those 'barely in' families.
but in certain small ways, i think mine were slightly less hard line than some other families i've heard stories about over the years.
one example was the 'fall dinner'.
Most (American) JW's have a Thanksgiving dinner, just not on the day as everyone else. In their mind, this makes them superior to others, even though they do the exact same thing. I thought it was VERY hypocritical as a kid, but enjoyed the food and fellowship just the same.
Watchtower ideology flourishes at the intersection of ignorance and pride. It is hard to tell which one is more responsible for blinding so many people.
jws seem to firmly believe that before the flood mankind eas vegan or at least vegetarian.. however, in gen 1:24,25 it says that god created livestock (domestic animals) and beasts of the eart (wild beasts).. why would adam and eve need livestock if they were vegan and naked?
wouldn't need wool or hide for clothing, nor meat for food.
possibly for dairy products only?
Seems pretty clear the original diet before the fall was a vegetarian diet that consisted of fruits, grains, and nuts.
Gen. 1: 29 And God said, ‘See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.'”
It doesn't say anything about eating animals. The verses you cite simply indicate that Adam and Eve were made on the same day as the animals:
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
